27 Responses so far

1. 1. jake on Dec 12th, 2009 at 6:22 pm

   Why don’t Peter just take it like a man? Both sides of our border, Canada and U.S. just don’t go around beating people. I have crossed a thousand plus times and you just do what they ask and you go on your way. They are trying to keep us all safe from dangerous drugs and dangerous people. For God sakes let them do their job!!!

2. 2. JMG8 on Dec 16th, 2009 at 2:42 pm

   This is a test to see if “freethinking” includes dissent from your point of view, which I find unbearably smug and fatuous.

   Peter Watts objected to a routine border stop. He stormed out of his car, argued with officers, refused to get back into his vehicle, and struggled when they tried to arrest him. He and his friends are shocked, just shocked, that border agents take the border and their job seriously.

   Anyone who has crossed borders knows the drill. You answer their questions and let them do their thing with your bags and vehicle. It’s that way all over the world, even if you’re a smug, white Canadian writer with a doctorate. There is no special exemption for the self-entitled.

   Peter Watts and his supporters have been censoring their websites to screen out any commentary from people who object to his puerile behavior that day. Watts himself refuses to explain in detail why he left his vehicle, why he refused to get back inside, and why he resisted arrest. Apparently, he doesn’t think the rules apply to superior beings like him.

   Got news for ya, Pete. You’re no different than anyone else.

3. 3. JMG8 on Dec 16th, 2009 at 4:37 pm

   I’m not surprised that my comment disappeared. Your crowd loves dissent, as long as it’s not directed at anything you might happen to say.

4. 4. Tobias Buckell on Dec 16th, 2009 at 4:48 pm

   The fascists are out in numbers on this one. Apparently you have no rights!

   Sad.

5. 5. Tobias Buckell on Dec 16th, 2009 at 4:48 pm

   PS. All first time comments go to moderation queue, grow a sack.

6. 6. JMG8 on Dec 16th, 2009 at 10:11 pm

   Yeah, anyone who doesn’t think there’s a “smug white Canadian doctorate-holding sci-fi author exemption” to common sense and civility at the border is a “fascist.” FAIL!

7. 7. Tobias Buckell on Dec 16th, 2009 at 11:21 pm

   So obviously you believe that no cops anywhere have ever been documented violating someone’s rights?

8. 8. JMG8 on Dec 17th, 2009 at 12:34 am

   Tobias, please note exactly where I made the statement you think I did. The reality is that I think Peter Watts was a sophomoric provacateur, and his fans are gullible robots who will believe whatever they are told to believe. Your crowd hasn’t even asked basic questions of your hero. Some “freethinkers” you are!

9. 9. Tobias Buckell on Dec 17th, 2009 at 2:27 am

   So I’m a gullible robot?

10. 10. JMG8 on Dec 17th, 2009 at 3:07 am

    You have accepted his account without even asking basic questions. In this regard, you are absolutely no different than the average Sarah Palin supporter. It’s a whole lot easier to put the third digit of your I.Q. in a trust managed by others than it is to actually use it in evaluating what your “friends” tell you.

    When I look at the christian wingnuts who never bothered to actually pay attention to what they claim to believe, and then look at the whine ‘n cheese faux anarchist-fashionista of the Peter Watts type who never bothered to actually pay attention to what they claim to believe, I roll my eyes and say to myself, “This country is getting exactly what it deserves.”

11. 11. Battlecar Compactica on Dec 18th, 2009 at 3:06 pm

    @JMG8 “Peter Watts objected to a routine border stop. He stormed out of his car, argued with officers, refused to get back into his vehicle, and struggled when they tried to arrest him.”

    Were you there?

    “Anyone who has crossed borders knows the drill. You answer their questions and let them do their thing with your bags and vehicle.”

    Does asking questions or getting out of your car warrant a beating?

    “Watts himself refuses to explain in detail why he left his vehicle, why he refused to get back inside, and why he resisted arrest.”

    Do you understand the legal ramifications if he did this?

    “You have accepted his account without even asking basic questions.”

    While you’ve rejected it wholeheartedly. How amusing that you fall into the same gullible traps as those that you so openly loathe.

12. 12. JMG8 on Dec 18th, 2009 at 11:35 pm

    Were you there?

    Nope. Were you? Watts has said that he exited his car to ask “what was going on.” What, an author and holder of a doctorate doesn’t know “what’s going on” when his car is being searched by border agents at a border? Why did he need to get out? Why didn’t be obey an order to get back inside? Why did he struggle with police?

    Does asking questions or getting out of your car warrant a beating?

    Of course not. Watts was (in the words of the police report) muscled to the ground when he resisted arrest.

    Do you understand the legal ramifications if he did this?

    Watts has told a tale that his sycophants have accepted without even bothering to ask followup questions. Having told a story, he should be willing to answer further questions about that story.

    While you’ve rejected it wholeheartedly. How amusing that you fall into the same gullible traps as those that you so openly loathe.

    I haven’t rejected his account wholeheartedly. Watts has admitted getting out of his car, and has admitted struggling with the arresting officers. I accept those elements of his account, and now that the police report confirms that he was pepper sprayed, I also accept that element of his account.

    The reality here is that Watts and his followers are fashionista faux anarchists who will accept virtually ANY story told at the expense of the border authorities of a country they despise, the United States, even to the point of overlooking obvious, gaping holes in Watts’s story, beginning with what burning “questions” he needed to ask to begin with, and why he needed to get out of his car to ask them.

13. 13. Atomicat on Dec 18th, 2009 at 11:44 pm

    Every time I feel the word “Unbelievable” on the tip of my tongue I bite it because it is all too believable. I’ve been looking for an article that pointed out that the only other situation where one’s safest course of action is to meekly say nothing, obey every order, and hope for the best is when one is confronted by a gang of armed thugs. This is not the way one should have to behave in front of any authority figure weather it be police or border guards.

    However… I’m sickened and revolted by the preponderance of comments that characterize Peter Watts and anyone who has had problems with border guards as “liberal” “entitled” or man this really does sum it up doesn’t it… “whine ‘n cheese faux anarchist-fashionista” WTF? I love how this person tries to equate anyone who actually believes Peter’s story (because we’ve heard the same so many times before) to Palin supporters.

    I’ve never seen “Homeland Security” before (guess what, another liberal anarchist robot with no TV) but out of curiosity downloaded a few episodes. Nice bit of propaganda. Why is it needed if not to counteract the reality. Interesting, they’re showing the sweet lovable TSA agents now, the same ones who did this…

    http://www.mybottlesup.com/tsa-agents-took-my-son/

14. 14. JMG8 on Dec 19th, 2009 at 3:48 am

    Srh Pln’s fns thnk tht bcs Srh sys t, t’s tr. Ptr Wtts’s fns thnk tht bcs Ptr sys t, t’s tr. Nthr grp lks ny dpr, nd bth grps rgrd nyn wh dbts thr fhrr r vn rlly <>thnks bt wht’s bng sd s “trll,” r “trrrst sympthzr.”

    Tht’s rlly th sd thng hr. Ppl rn’t jst gllbl nd stpd, bt thy r ctlly <>hstl t ntllgnc, thght, nd ndpndnc f mnd. Y s ths vrywhr y trn n mrc ths dys. Ptr Wtts’s clq s bsltly n dffrnt n ths rspct thn Srh Pln’s.

    [Where are the vowels?]

    JMG8 is a troll. Since trolls can only grunt, his comment was adjusted as well

15. 15. JMG8 on Dec 19th, 2009 at 3:52 am

    p.s.: My hero, to the extent I have one, is H.L. Mencken. That guy punctured every balloon in sight, with no fear. I have no doubt that he’d have had field day turning Peter Watts and his fan club into a bag of confetti.

16. 16. M&Ms on Dec 19th, 2009 at 1:45 pm

    JMG8 is obviously on some sort of witch hunt against Watts and his supporters. His arrogant comments, similar to the ones here, weren’t taken kindly on other boards and he was muzzled for his inflammatory and insulting attitude. Trolls don’t like being silenced and will go to great lengths to continue to play their games. Ignore him and his ilk, they ultimately add nothing to the discussion. Once the facts come out they’ll slink back into the shadows, never to be heard from again.

17. 17. JMG8 on Dec 20th, 2009 at 2:48 am

    Y wnt t knw wht’s jst dlcs bt ll f ths? Sng Wtts nd hs “nt-thrtrn” crwd bcm cnsrs. Wlcm t th lnd f th jckbt!

    [Where are the vowels?]

    JMG8 is a troll. Since trolls can only grunt, his comment was adjusted as well

18. 18. Tobias Buckell on Dec 21st, 2009 at 1:02 pm

    JMG8, if you can’t actually engage the argument, but have to resort to slurs, I will ban you from posting. This is a private blog, and there is a comment policy you are failing to observe.

19. 19. JMG8 on Dec 21st, 2009 at 2:31 pm

    Hy, y’d bttr bn whvr pt p cmmnt #4 thn. r sn’t “fscst” slr n yr wrld?

    [Where are the vowels?]

    JMG8 is a troll. Since trolls can only grunt, his comment was adjusted as well

20. 20. Tobias Buckell on Dec 21st, 2009 at 2:54 pm

    Nope, fascist refers to a person who believes in “a political ideology that seeks to combine radical and authoritarian nationalism[1][2][3][4] with a corporatist economic system.” You have espoused authoritarian POVs, particularly in your description of Peter as an outsider. So far the trollish stuff you have here, and you’ve had elsewhere, correctly depicts you as what you are.

21. 21. JMG8 on Dec 21st, 2009 at 3:05 pm

    Tbs, wht r y s frd f?

    [Where are the vowels?]

    JMG8 is a troll. Since trolls can only grunt, his comment was adjusted as well

22. 22. Tobias Buckell on Dec 21st, 2009 at 3:19 pm

    Just FYI readers, I’ve been told JMG8 is some sort of online stalker/troll who’s obsessed with this topic, so I’m disemvoweling his stuff from now on. He’s been obsessively refreshing the page (according to my IP logs) and looking for an argument. I deleted a couple of his comments after asking him to stop, but like most paranoid types, that fueled his obsession. I’m now just going to disemvowel them, since he refuses to be polite or treat this area like he’s a guest in my home.

    If the obsessive behavior continues I’ll likely then just shut the post down, but for now the disemvoweling works, and plus, it’s funny.

23. 23. Kate Baker on Dec 21st, 2009 at 7:42 pm

    Hahah — “faux anarchist-fashionista” — I’m suddenly reminded of that dialog from the Princess Bride.

    “Inconceivable!”

    We whine ‘n cheese faux anarchist-fashionistas should know the rest of that famous exchange.

    Thanks for the link on Twitter for the disemvowel plug-in, btw. I know a bunch of people who would LOVE to use this.

24. 24. Jamie on Dec 22nd, 2009 at 10:43 am

    Off topic: Where *are* the vowels? It’s not a clickable link for me. I don’t know if I’m amused that I can understand the comments without them or horrified that my mind processes that way. If I don’t need vowels, what’s next? Texting: “?uwnt4dnr” to my husband? If it’s a security feature that can be enabled to warn off trolls it’s way cool.

    On topic: I’m sad for what happened to Dr. Watts. I hope the border video ends all the “Jack booted thugs” vs. “He was askin’ fer it” debate. It was all caught on tape. We’ll find out exactly what happened soon enough.

    However, I can’t imagine if he did choke the border guards they would have let him go as “quickly” as they did. I’d expect him to be still cooling his heels in a cell if he attacked a guard. But I also think if he stayed in his car and just dealt with the search none of this would have happened — which is not to say he “was askin’ fer it.” I admire that he questioned the reason for the search. I’m wondering why he had to step out of the car to do so. That seems a bit aggressive without reason. But I must say the “get out of the car” “get back into the car” “get out of the car” again exchange that went on is confusing to me. There’s also been a claim that this isn’t the first time he’s been arrested for something like this. However, that’s unsubstantiated.

    There’s a lot of drama being built around all of this. And I can’t help feeling that this incident is being made into a scape goat for people who want another reason to hate the US vs. people who want to hate the people who hate the US.

    On the other hand he’s made me realize my own fears about travelling to another country. If this can happen to a mild mannered Canadian writer, who’s to say it’s not going to happen to me too? Maybe I shouldn’t go to Paris (for the first time) on my 40th birthday next year. Maybe it’s safer to stay in CT until all this madness dies down. That saddens me.

    And if it turns out the border guards overstepped their authority, which seems likely, I hope they get prosecuted or at least lose their jobs. I’ve been lurking around all the sites reading about the accounts. I shouldn’t be astonished by all the trolls and mean spirited people (on both sides) this close to the holidays, but I am. Leave it to writers to make you feel the contempt dripping off the page.

    One good thing that’s come out of this whole debacle is I’m finding a bunch of good writers I haven’t read yet. And it’s nice how the writer community has banded together. I’ve always thought the science fiction/fantasy/horror readers and writers have the biggest heart when it comes to helping out someone in need.

25. 25. Tobias Buckell on Dec 22nd, 2009 at 11:09 am

    Jamie: visiting Paris will not be a problem. I would not be scared. This is an isolated US incident. Be outraged at the specific, but I wouldn’t draw larger fears from it. Paris will be the adventure of a lifetime! Go!

26. 26. Battlecar Compactica on Dec 22nd, 2009 at 1:12 pm

    “I admire that he questioned the reason for the search. I’m wondering why he had to step out of the car to do so.”

    I’m not going to speculate on what Mr. Watt’s reasoning was, but I could see someone wanting to watch the police go through their belongings to make sure nothing was taken out (or put in!), much like wanting to watch the TSA rummage through your carry-on.

27. 27. Wyman Cooke on Dec 23rd, 2009 at 1:55 pm

    I go away for awhile, and a troll wanders in….

    For myself, while I don’t think Peter Watts was wise in his confrontation of the police, I don’t believe he assaulted the border patrol agents like they’ve accused him of doing. If the police have an explanation of how he did it, I look forward to reading it as much as I did The Hobbit.